“Creating an atmosphere of worship”, “entering in”, “breakthrough”, “experiencing the glory cloud”, “feel His presence”, “feel His love pouring over you”??? For about two years now these terms have been bothering me. I know where the concept comes from – mostly the Old Testament, but now that Christ is in me and daily I am in His presence, fellowship and keeping myself in the love of God, why do I need to seek an “experience” out side of what the Word teaches? For years I have been frustrated with my walk in God because I was seeking a sign from Him. God revealed that to me this morning as I woke up praying. My seeking God, crying, falling out on the floor, screaming and “manifesting” were all signs of my faith being in crisis. This morning as I was praying this scripture came to mind:
” a wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed” Matt. 16:4
I believe in miracles. God is a God of miraculous acts, which He has performed at sundry times according to His plan and purpose. I thank God for this and have no sympathy for religious teaching that denies the miraculous. I believe in signs. God has given us many of them at His appointed times and according to His purpose, and has revealed in His Word the meaning and purpose of them. To believe in these is a simple matter of faith in the Word of God and to doubt them is to question the integrity of God and the validity of the Bible. On the other hand sign hunting comes not from a spirit of a faith which is deeply satisfied with the mighty acts of God already performed, but from a spirit of unbelief which demands a perpetual continuation of those signs, wonders and miracles. This is the attitude of the skeptic which says, “Except I see, I will not believe.” In Matt. 16:4, the Pharisees and Sadducees were not convinced by the signs “on earth” Jesus had done – they were blind to the signs regarding Jesus’ Messianic credentials right before their eyes.
This morning God showed me that all those years of “manifesting” (which may include but is not limited to speaking in tongues unbiblically, shaking, dancing uncontrollably, disruptive outbursts [both words and various noises], and uncontrollable physical gyrations) in an effort to “touch Him” in some way, to “feel His presence” or to “enter in the glory cloud”, was how I was seeking a sign. Signs alone converts no one. In the body of Christ today we place far too much confidence in signs as events bring people to faith in Jesus. As it relates to worship, the sign that I was seeking as I worshiped in the worship service and at home was “God’s presence” or a feeling to come over me to give me some type of assurance that He is in me or with me. Often times I had to conjure up emotions and tears just so that I can feel like I was “pressing in”or going “deeper”, but all the while I was having a mystical experience. What I was doing is what some call today “flase fire” which is the counterfeit of the ministry of the Holy Ghost. It signifies the need within man to experience the presence of God in a sensual, emotional way and thereby exercise both his senses and emotions to “manufacture” sensationalism. I have been doing this for years and I was always on a rollercoaster in my walk with the Lord. Instead of being taught by the church how to KNOW the Lord, I was seduced and the tools of the seduction included uplifting, often energetic, even tribal, rhythmic type music with lots of percussion instruments, dynamic personalities who prance, shout and strut themselves across the platform—in other words, a charged up atmosphere “by any means necessary”. The problem with this sort of worship is that it tends to provoke an emotional, demonstrative response an outburst so to speak that is based on factors other than the truth of the Gospel of Jesus crucified, dead, buried, raised, ascended and coming back. Dynamic preachers of all denominations and persuasions can be extremely skilled at manipulating a crowd by stirring up the emotions of people. When the emotions of a congregation are stirred, the shouts, screams and similar outcries can light a false fire throughout the congregation, the results of which are erroneously attributed to an outpouring of the Holy Ghost. “Holy” laughter, “holy” dancing, shouting, falling out slain, rolling on the floor, running up and down the aisles, throwing money at the feet of prominent evangelists and other forms of emotional frenzy keep the false flame alive. At these euphoric times, not only are the pockets and wallets fleeced, but people “get high” and think to themselves ”now is the time I can give myself to Jesus” and they start marching down aisles in small churches and in big tents, convention halls and stadiums.
Not to be misunderstood, I certainly do not suggest that reverent music and praise has no place, but rather, no emotional tactic needs to be employed to psychologically condition sinners to come forward to the altar and “confess Christ”. If the elect are assembled within the assembly, the Holy Ghost knows how to reach them once they have heard the simplicity of the gospel. The problem is that the messages or sermons that accompany the antics are often not grounded in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
God showed me that my worship was all wrong! For two years now God has been showing me this about myself and cleansing me with His word from this false sense of worship and need for an “experience” with Him. The truth of the matter is that as I continue in fellowship with Him and obey His commandments I am “experiencing” Him daily in the transformation of my soul into His image. God has been teaching me that my faith in Him is in a knowing and not a feeling. Although I have heard this many times spoken by my leaders, I never grasped it. Perhaps it was mainly because they ignorantly continued to have the congregation seek God emotionally in the worship service by using words such as “press in”, go “deeper”, “push”, and praise until it hurts or until something happens. As believers, most of us have gotten the Biblical idea of personal and corporate praise and worship twisted. When we praise God we praise Him for: His mighty acts and according to his excellent greatness (Ps. 150), because He made or created us and to be joyful of our king (Ps 149), because He is our refuge, burden-bearer, deliverer, shield and I can go on an on. When we worship God we worship Him because we know who He is. Jesus made it clear in John chapter 4 that one cannot worship who they don’t know. He also said that they that worship the Father must worship Him in spirit and in truth. What does that mean? Well, because God is a spirit, then we must conclude that our worship must be spiritual. We are a three part being – body, soul and spirit. It is our spirit that communicates with His Spirit. Our mind and will and emotions are also used to worship Him (our soul), and we can use our body too – raising arms, clapping hands, dancing. We can worship Him with our whole being, but it is our spirit that worships, led by His Holy Spirit.
I understand now that my worship experience and the worship service has been and is being manipulated towards mysticism (Gnosticism) and sensuality or a feeling of the soul or flesh (not sexual in nature) by a concept that has been introduced into the churches very subtly over many years and in fact has become a catch phrase in our church language. We have been led to believe that we must “create an atmosphere” that is conducive to God the Father coming down to meet us, to enable us to experience His manifested presence, otherwise He will not abide with us and the anointing will not be there for healing and deliverance. As I study His Word, the more I see that there is something truly wrong with this concept. As a praise dancer (a person who praises God in the dance) I must be very careful now that my eyes have been opened to the truth of God’s word, not to partake or compromise my walk with the lord by co-signing on this type of false worship (even if my church is plagued by it) and by my dancing not to lead others to the same, ultimately entering into that false mystical experience of what was interpreted as “God’s manifest presence”. If I do so or compromise myself to this false type of worship, I will be disobeying what I know to be true according to His Word.
Now…I believe in the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit working in and through a believer’s life to bring glory to the Father in Jesus Christ, to walk in His presence daily by faith and not by feelings. The practice of “setting the atmosphere” or creating one to provide just the right ambiance for God to be present amongst His people is a slap in the face to God according to what the Word teaches us. By doing so I believe that we are in unbelief or at least I was. If it is an experience that we desire, are we opening ourselves up to another spirit or seducing spirits that feed our sensuality. We are seeking a sign or proof of Jesus who said he will never leave us or forsake us. Jesus said simply, “For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.” (Matt. 18:20) He is there, whether we feel anything at all and we do not have to have a spiritually charged atmosphere to know that He is present.
In some of our churches we like to reference the Old Testament for ideas or prescriptions about worship and how to do it. By doing so it is easy to be caught up in the false spirituality, believing that we can go on to “higher levels in God” in praise and worship. The Scriptures does not teach us that we are to seek to go higher in the “presence of God”, but to “grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18). The power of this pattern of worship is almost too hard to resist in this day of famine for the Word. Yes famine! God showed me that I was seeking Him and partaking in false worship because I did not know His Word. That is why, when I came off that “mountain top experience” I went back to sin because I did not know His Word. If I don’t know His Word I can’t keep it. Scripture teaches if one does not keep His word - and if he says that he knows God he is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4). In many cases what is interpreted as the “presence of God” is nothing more than soulishness or even to the more extreme sense, other spirits in guise of the Holy Spirit. We have been taught that God is in some other spiritual realm, and that we have to coax Him to come down to us. This is totally not true. The veil was torn from the top to the bottom to show us that God has made himself accessible by the blood of the Lamb and we can now come boldly to the throne of grace to receive help in the time of need. God is not in some other realm where we have to “press”, “push” and “enter in” in order to be in His presence. The presence of the Lord is not beyond us in another state of mind. In the worship service we don’t have to dance and give all we have physically to the act of worship, and express with our emotions and bodies with such over-wrought desire hoping to enter into the presence of the Lord. We must not be like the prophets of Baal who tried to call down the presence of their gods, beating, whipping and cutting themselves hoping that this would bring about their desired effects. Scripture teaches us that we must move in faith with the belief that God is who He said He is, He is faithful to His word, that no matter where we try to flee from Him, He is always there. (Psalm 139:7)
As believers we are to trust our God who has made the way through what Jesus Christ accomplished on the Cross, through His death the veil was torn and we have access to the Father in one Spirit through Him. (Matthew 27:51) (Ephesians 2:18) According to the scriptures in Psalm 95: 1-7, we are bid to come according to His terms, to give glory to our God, to worship Him, to kneel before our Maker, for He is our God and we are the sheep of His pasture. His terms are the only ones acceptable! John 4:24 teaches us that God is a Sprit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Again what does that mean? It means that to worship God it involves us using our rational mind to know the truth of His Word and because God is spirit, we must worship Him not by our senses or emotions, but we must be filled with the Spirit of God to worship Him in spirit, by believing in faith that His presence is always with us and in us- we don’t need to “seek” any further.
God Bless,
PDCM
10 Comments
Comments RSS TrackBack Identifier URI
Leave a comment

Good thoughts.
I’ve been searching for some scriptures that relate to “the presence of God,” as its promoted these days. I don’t see Biblical support for seeking a manifestation of His presence, as something to be felt in our lives. Thanks for providing some relevant scriptures.
God bless you! You are absolutely right (“I don’t see Biblical support for seeking a manifestation of His presence, as something to be felt in our lives”) there is no scripture to support that and sadly this is what we are taught to seek. Scripture simply teaches us to believe, trust, and know. Thank you so much for stopping by.
I agree with your interpretation that having people become all excited and emotional in order to experience God is not going to be lead to a long held positive life-change.
I have tried Catholicism, nondenominational Christian churches, evangelical churches, and even some fringe cult churches but still I have never had regular experiences with God that were life-changing.
However, what I believe you have said about Mysticism does not seem to align with what I have experienced as a Christian Mystic or what I understand Mysticism to be. While there are over 22,000 versions of Christianity and it is really sad that we cannot figure out how to be more inclusive, mysticism is not a doctrine of false teaching.
“A mystical experience is different than having a belief because a mystical experience involves coming into a direct relationship with God. Feeling God, seeing God, and knowing God cannot be accomplished by belief alone.” (ref: http://www.centersoflight.org/what_is_christian_mysticism.html.
It seems to me that you already have a ‘mystical’ relationship with God. A big problem I see in the church today is that few Priests have reached a level of consciousness that allows them to be truly effective teachers. Consciousness is not taught in most schools but can be taught. A second issue I see is that most people do not want to do the work to change.
About 13 months ago I was introduced to Christian mysticism through the Centers of light (http://centersoflight.org) and at last I have found something that has been profoundly positively life-changing in my walk with God. I realize that what I have found is unique and many of the founding principles are foreign to most religious circles:
* A real student teacher relationship where I feel safe to reveal my stuff and work on it with specific directed activity and progress monitoring.
* Teachings in how to quiet the mind, how to focus and how to hear from God internally through daily meditation practice and exercises.
* Teachings in how to apply the inner meaning of what Jesus taught to my own life.
* I have a spiritual family where I feel safe to share things that I am working through and can let other members lovingly assist with the guidance of priests when needed.
* The priests are unpaid by the organization and any sexual immorality would result in immediate expulsion from the order.
If you have any interest in learning about Christian mysticism here are a few web links:
Website on Christian Mysticism: http://www.centersoflight.org/what_is_christian_mysticism.html
Podcast on Christian Mysticism: http://www.askfatherpeter.com/podcast/06_Mysticism_and_the_Mystical_Path_AskFatherPeter.Com.mp3
Podcast on how to quiet the mind: http://www.askfatherpeter.com/podcast/02_Quieting_the_Mind_AskFatherPeter.Com.mp3
Thank you for your work to help bless others in dance and spirtual development.
Blessings,
Jonathan
Hmm, very cognitive post.
Is this theme good unough for the Digg?
I would think so.
In your comments above, you quote Mt.18, “where 2 or 3 are gathered together…” Look at it in context and see if you don’t conclude that the statement is made in light of church discipline!! Let me know what you think! Also, can you please give me some insight on the expression “anointed”? It bothers me when someone gives a “powerful” word or message, and the hearers comment later that the person was really anointed by God!!! WHAT is that suppose to mean? A true Christian has the Spirit in them, what more is needed??
Hi Lisa! In context Mat. 18:20 does relate to church discipline, but it is also a general truth. If God is in me and in another person and we come together in agreement to worship Him…He is already there because He lives inside of both of us. Therefore we don’t have to conjure Him up, ask Him to come and etc. I totally understand where you are coming from with the expression “anointed”. This is a word that has been overused and misused. Some of us have been taught that “God’s touch” or when we feel His “presence” or the goose bumps is the “anointing”,but the Bible never taught us that the anointing is a feeling. Some of us was taught that the anointing is the power of God. The Bible teaches no such thing. The anointing is not the power of God, but the act of being consecrated or set aside. As Christians we are AlL anointed equally by the anointer who is Jesus Christ. We all are anointed by is Spirit. We may not all have the same gift, but we are anointed the same way…by Jesus Christ. 2Co 1:21; 1John 2:20; 1John 2:27. You said it! Nothing more is needed. I think when our foundation is not sure, it leads some to these false teaching and promises of “more” when Jesus has already given us everything we need pertaining to life and godliness.
“Creating an atmosphere of worship”, “entering in”, “breakthrough”, “experiencing the glory cloud”, “feel His presence”, “feel His love pouring over you”. “I know where the concept comes from – mostly the Old Testament, but now that Christ is in me and daily I am in His presence, fellowship and keeping myself in the love of God, why do I need to seek an “experience” out side of what the Word teaches?”
So many christians believe that since Jesus has come & died for our sins, that he is the new way. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfull it. He followed the Old Testament teachings, but christians do not. In the Old Testamnet God says he will give His glory to know man, yet many christians give that glory to Jesus who was a man. I believe a lot of what you believe but would like to add that perhaps you should also read the books that were left out of the New Testament when they put together the canon scriptures.
Hello! Thank you for your comment.
“So many christians believe that since Jesus has come & died for our sins, that he is the new way.”
I kinda think I understand what you are saying, but Jesus is the new way. I say that because through Him a new covenant was established. Jeremiah 31:31-34 prophesies about a new covenant and Hebrews 12:24 identifies Jesus Christ as the mediator of the new covenant. Hebrews 8:6 tells us the new covenant is better than the old because it contains better promises. Promises which were never before offered and thus unique to the new covenant.Israel didn’t have the heart or nature to obey God (Deuteronomy 5:29). The old covenant contained no provision for internal motivation to obey God (Hebrews 8:7-8, Romans 8:3). In the new covenant God promises to put His laws into the mind and write them on the heart (Hebrews 8:10). The fundamental basis of the new covenant is simply the conversion process. “Writing” God’s laws in the mind and on the heart poetically describes how God, through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, helps us “internalize” His laws. So we are in fact following the OT teachings or his laws because we walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh. The OT was only a tutor until Christ came to fulfill it (Gal. 3:24-25) and since we are in Christ we understand that He already fulfilled it…we just have to walk in Him and obey His word.
“In the Old Testamnet God says he will give His glory to know man, yet many christians give that glory to Jesus who was a man.”
Scripture teaches us and the Holy Ghost bears witness that Jesus was not just a man. He was and is God. Jesus was God in the flesh. John Chapter 1 teaches us that in the beginning was the word (Jesus the Christ), and the word was with God (Jesus) and the word was God(who is Jesus). He loved us enough to robe himself in flesh and rescue us from eternal damnation.
“I believe a lot of what you believe but would like to add that perhaps you should also read the books that were left out of the New Testament when they put together the canon scriptures.”
Thank you again so much for your comment. I really do understand where you are coming from and I hope these scriptures has helped your understanding of who Jesus is and the new covenant because it helped mine. Also, thank you for your suggestion, but I don’t believe that there are “lost books” of the Bible or books that were taken out of the Bible. God is intelligent and every book that God intended and inspired to be in the Bible is in the Bible. There are literally hundreds of religious books that were written in the same time period as the books of the Bible. Some of these books contain true accounts of things that actually occurred and some contain good spiritual teaching. However, these books are not inspired by God. If we read any of these books we have to treat them as fallible historical books, not as the inspired, inerrant Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17).There is one God. The Bible has one Creator and everything God wanted us to know is in that one book (no matter what history tells us about the corruption of King James, the Roman Catholic Church or anyone else for that matter because God was always in control). It has one plan of grace, recorded from initiation, through execution, to consummation. From predestination to glorification, the Bible is the story of God redeeming His chosen people for the praise of His glory. As God’s redemptive purposes and plan unfold in Scripture, the recurring themes constantly emphasized are the character of God, the judgment for sin and disobedience, the blessing for faith and obedience, the Lord Savior and sacrifice for sin, and the coming kingdom and glory. It is God’s intention that we know and understand these five themes because our lives and eternal destinies depend upon them. It is therefore unthinkable that God would allow some of this vital information to be “lost” in any way. The Bible is complete, in order that we who read and understand it might also be “complete, and equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17). God has given us “all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him” (2 Peter 1:3), and our knowledge of Him is complete through the revealed Word. Whatever these “lost books” contained is irrelevant, because we have the Word of God exactly as He wanted us to have it—nothing more, and certainly nothing less. It is my prayer that God gives all of us wisdom and understanding of His word so that grow in Him and be ready when He comes.
Blessings and Glory to the only wise God. Jesus Christ our savior.
You my dear be blessed and continue to seek the Lord. You will not be disappointed. Blessings and love.
PDCM
thıs ıs very good. these are some of the thıngs ı’ve also been thınkıng about recently and you have put ıt ınto words.